Curse

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by raea29

I actually found the squabbling to be very useful because I got to see/hear reason why things don't work... and as i'm not anywhere near an elite player it is good for learning sakes =]

And that should be the right attitude. Squabbling is a sign of a healthy forum. Realistically you can't randomly pick 2 people from across the globe on the Internet and expect them to agree on everything everytime. As long as it doesn't degenerate into pure personal insults and name calling, the posts should still be helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raea29

Ok guys, pardon my ignorance. Slavers and Shadow of Orr.... these are two of the hardest mission/dungeons etc. to complete? What are some of the others (Wiki doesn't rate difficulty).

One thing to point out is that our build postings so far are for general HM areas. The BEST result you are going to get, for a particular area is a build that is customized for your character AND for the area itself. However, general HM builds are there for the more lazy people who do not want to customize their builds according to each area, and these builds generally work fine for most HM areas. Since the elite HM areas are much harder than the general areas, a more customized build is usually used for each of them.

Case in point and with the added advantage of pissing off Igor further for popularizing other people's builds above his, here is EFGJack's dungeon build customized for different dungeons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10434178.html

For Slavers, you usually want to bring Frozen Soil and for Shards, it is better going with smites and holy damage.

raea29 · May 22, 2010, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

One thing to point out is that our build postings so far are for general HM areas. The BEST result you are going to get, for a particular area is a build that is customized for your character AND for the area itself. However, general HM builds are there for the more lazy people who do not want to customize their builds according to each area, and these builds generally work fine for most HM areas. Since the elite HM areas are much harder than the general areas, a more customized build is usually used for each of them.

I will begin to get into the habbit of learning how to customise for certain areas and take enemies into consideration but I will likely use other peoples builds as a basis for this anyways =]

In everyones opinions what are the hardest missions?

Myotheraccount · May 22, 2010, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by raea29

I will begin to get into the habbit of learning how to customise for certain areas and take enemies into consideration but I will likely use other peoples builds as a basis for this anyways =]

In everyones opinions what are the hardest missions?

Look up the area on GWW and see what will potentially annoy you most. Then, make modifications to your hero builds to counter that before you go in. With most "cookie cutters" like Spiritway or Discord though, you don't have to do that at all for most areas. When you do, the changes will most likely be minor. For example in Slaver's you just take FS to prevent the dwarves from ressing and possibly also remove some high energy hexes because of heavy hex removal dwarves have. However, in areas such as SoO you will most certainly have to customize your builds specifically to fit that area. But, those areas are somewhat uncommon.

IMO the hardest HM missions for hero teams are UW, DoA, Slaver's and Glint's Challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Case in point and with the added advantage of pissing off Igor further for popularizing other people's builds above his, here is EFGJack's dungeon build customized for different dungeons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10434178.html

Not pissed at all. But spamming links to someone's build in the same thread and then calling someone else a fanboy later is quite a stupid thing to do. It was supposed to be an advice for you. I am disappoint that you took it the wrong way but then I wasn't expecting anything else from someone like yourself.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

But spamming links to someone's build in the same thread and then calling someone else a fanboy later is quite a stupid thing to do.

It wasn't a link to your build that I was spamming.

@OP: I suggest trying out EFGJack's builds to see how he uses different builds to counter the different effects from different dungeons, if you want to learn more.

raea29 · May 22, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

@OP: I suggest trying out EFGJack's builds to see how he uses different builds to counter the different effects from different dungeons, if you want to learn more.

I tried his basic forms of the build and his usage of what seems like a good build requires a lot of micro management that i can't seem to be able use effectively.... although my intention was to use his builds to see what needs changed and where.

Myotheraccount · May 22, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by raea29

I tried his basic forms of the build and his usage of what seems like a good build requires a lot of micro management that i can't seem to be able use effectively.... although my intention was to use his builds to see what needs changed and where.

Daesu can't/refuses to read. Something you may need to consider when dealing with him. This should be considered an advice. You will most definitely learn to body block and micro manage with time. It's something that comes and developes with practice so don't expect to get everything right the first try.
That said, EFGJack's setup is indeed very effective. At least, I admire it for finally dropping the defense stupidity usually present in hero setups of the masses. To see what I mean, look through other entries in this thread.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by raea29

I tried his basic forms of the build and his usage of what seems like a good build requires a lot of micro management that i can't seem to be able use effectively.... although my intention was to use his builds to see what needs changed and where.

That is the best way to learn actual skills in this game. If you persist and improve over time, you would be a real expert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

That said, EFGJack's setup is indeed very effective. At least, I admire it for finally dropping the defense stupidity usually present in hero setups of the masses.

As usual, I would not expect you to understand this because you think the whole world revolve around you with childish comments like this in your pvx wiki page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount pvx page

List of ubah PvE builds I run or used to run. Most are for Me + Heroes. Mostly involve Spirits, Discord and Necro. These builds are ubah. If you disagree, you are wrong. :3

Defense is also important especially when creating a generic c-space build for HM.

This is also why some generic 3-heroes HM build fell out of favor because they have too much offense but not enough defense, and people who go for these tend to be lazier and expects to c-space through the game. If they wipe while c-spacing with your build in some arbitrary HM area, they would be pissed and vote your build down.

And sure, you can flame them all you want and expect them to micro this and that like a pro, but that is not going to happen. The majority of the GW player population is not going to improve their skills overnight just so they can micro your build successfully. Face it, they would rather vote your build down and says it sucks, than to insult themselves.

This is why successful generic 3-heroes HM builds (like sabway/discordway/spiritway) tend to be more defensive in general, for practical reasons. While good builds that require micro would always be more powerful.

Myotheraccount · May 23, 2010, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

As usual, I would not expect you to understand this because you think the whole world revolve around you with childish comments like this in your pvx wiki page:

It's PvX, live with it. Maybe it's childish like yourself but getting butthurt over it is worse. Nobody forces you to go there if you can't cope.

Quote:

Defense is also important especially when creating a generic c-space build for HM.

This is also why some generic 3-heroes HM build fell out of favor because they have too much offense but not enough defense, and people who go for these tend to be lazier and expects to c-space through the game. If they wipe while c-spacing with your build in some arbitrary HM area, they would be pissed and vote your build down.

And sure, you can flame them all you want and expect them to micro this and that like a pro, but that is not going to happen. The majority of the GW player population is not going to improve their skills overnight just so they can micro your build successfully. Face it, they would rather vote your build down and says it sucks, than to insult themselves.

This is why successful generic 3-heroes HM builds (like sabway/discordway/spiritway) tend to be more defensive in general, for practical reasons. While good builds that require micro would always be more powerful.

Just skipped through this. But, I run with one SoS and/or Minions, healer hench, Enfeebling, SoA, PS, Aegis and possibly PwK with a random Resto spot heal as my only means of defense. I think it's enough. I never go as far as taking a hero dedeicated purely to healing or protting, let alone both. I don't do massive ammounts of micro either, at least I'm not forced to.
When I run Discords I take full set of offensive Hench. They provide me with some DPS and backup hexes/condi.

Daesu · May 23, 2010, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

It's PvX, live with it. Maybe it's childish like yourself but getting butthurt over it is worse. Nobody forces you to go there if you can't cope.

No it is not pvx, it is just your superiority complex personality that you are always right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Just skipped through this. But, I run with one SoS and/or Minions, healer hench, Enfeebling, SoA, PS, Aegis and possibly PwK with a random Resto spot heal as my only means of defense. I think it's enough. I never go as far as taking a hero dedeicated purely to healing or protting, let alone both. I don't do massive ammounts of micro either, at least I'm not forced to.
When I run Discords I take full set of offensive Hench. They provide me with some DPS and backup hexes/condi.

And that is why you don't seem to understand what a c-space team build really is. Sure you want maximum power but at the same time, you dont want it to suck in most areas in HM.

The other aspect related to c-spacing is combining skills. If you put crucial skills like Protective spirit with a MM that has 3s cast animate spells and 2s cast death nova, then there would be times the AI decide not to cast you the PS that you so desperately need because he is mid-way casting Death Nova on a minion. No wonder Sab advices to micro the PS on her MM, but most people dont understand that. You simply have no clue what I am talking about even if I explain this a thousand time, you would never get it.

For the same reason, simply spreading your prots and heals across different heroes instead of having them in one doesn't imply a stronger team either.

Myotheraccount · May 23, 2010, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

No it is not pvx, it is just your superiority complex personality that you are always right.

Lol. Yes it's PvX. If you wan't a tacful, gentle enviroment, stay away from that site. Also, my builds really are awesome.

Quote:

And that is why you don't seem to understand what a c-space team build really is. Sure you want maximum power but at the same time, you dont want it to suck in most areas in HM.

The other aspect related to c-spacing is combining skills. If you put crucial skills like Protective spirit with a MM that has 3s cast animate spells and 2s cast death nova, then there would be times the AI decide not to cast you the PS that you so desperately need because he is mid-way casting Death Nova on a minion. No wonder Sab advices to micro the PS on her MM, but most people dont understand that. You simply have no clue what I am talking about even if I explain this a thousand time, you would never get it.

For the same reason, simply spreading your prots and heals across different heroes instead of having them in one doesn't imply a stronger team either.

I hardly ever take more defense than what I previously listed. PvE is easy. Also, a c+space build doesnt mean being terrible. It is a casual build for general PvE content like Vanquishing or Missions when you can just c+space through most of it. There is always a chance that hero will be casting something else instead of what is needed. Then just micro. If you don't want to micro then don't micro. Tbh you only need PS for pulls and soaking damage and you have to micro it in that case, on any build. Dedicating a separate hero for prots and/or heals is redundant. It used to be viable, but you didn't have as much powercreep.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 24, 2010, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Yet another thread that needs closing due to your immature bickering...